31.8.13

10" f/8 Inspiration.

For my inspiration to build this ultra-lightweight long focus, lunar/planetary telescope I am indebted to the websites of Mr R.F. Royce, threads on Cloudy Nights forums, Clive and many others too numerous to mention.

That we all stand on the shoulders of others was never more true than in the construction of a practical telescope. Many clever and inventive minds have been applied to the subject over a very long time. Often simply for the sheer pleasure of building something for themselves. Rather than any desire to be inventive with patents and vast profits in mind.

Telescope making is poorly paid in comparison with most wages or salaries. This may actually be a great advantage for those driven to build their own instrument. Those who are driven by monetary gain would be poorly served by pottering over minor details in the shed.

Fortunately there is a huge range of ways of making telescopes. From the crudest Dobsonian "cannon" built from the contents of builder's skips and scrap yard finds. To the finest construction and finish by highly skilled machinists. Both may admirably serve their purpose as instruments to observe the sky. Neither is really better as far as the builder is concerned. Though they may well covet the quality they see elsewhere. They say that comparisons are odious. We have all become rather spoilt by the cosmetic standard of the latest Asian offerings. Often making it difficult to exceed the visible quality standard by our own solitary efforts.

Decades ago, amateur telescope making was usually an attempt to bypass the very high prices of commercial instruments. Those who still choose to build there own instruments today have to find more compelling reasons to spend their free time making their own telescopes. Fortunately the creative spirit lives on in the hands of people from all walks of life.

The internet tells us the how and the why things have usually been done in the past. It also acts as a showcase for the competitive telescope builder. Many simply enjoy sharing their creativity for the benefit of others less able, less well equipped or simply less experienced. Why else would anybody contribute to an online forum? BTW: These are wonderful places to reassess one's knowledge base and to correct false assumptions. They often lead one to "think furiously." Provided one has an open mind, of course.

A complete instrument is often a gathering of many different ideas that have been seen online. Details garnered from existing instruments. Or new insights the builders have had themselves. Hopefully each new instrument pushes the boundaries of usefulness a little further forwards. We can't all invent Crayford focusers or Dobsonian rockers but our ideas are all equally valid to the sum of the whole. Even if they are a failed attempt to achieve the impossible. One learns and moves on to better proven ideas.

If I had the price of all the hobby materials I have wasted over the years I could easily afford a brand new telescope. But would be very much the poorer for never having tried something for myself. The skills I learned making telescopes have lead directly to employment, given me a very wide range of housebuilding abilities and an understanding of a many different materials and tools. More importantly, no matter how poor or insignificant my contributions to telescope making, the effort was honestly made. At least I didn't fritter my life away on crime, religion, gambling, spectator sports or drug and alcohol abuse.

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30.8.13

10" f/8 Curved vane spider Part2.

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Under compression.

It seems I don't have to go back to an old-fashioned and completely redundant secondary collimation system:

Tilting secondary holders can work against a compression spring. With two raised points to fix the desired hinge line. A compression screw on the third point of the triangle adjusts the secondary tilt. Thanks for the  useful tip, Clive!

My first attempt with everything safely in compression. A spiral compression spring sits in an oversized hole inside the oak plug at the base of the brass mirror holder. I have also re-bored the hole in the plug slightly larger to allow the secondary holder to rock freely on the threaded rod. (studding)

The threaded rod has a Ny-loc lock nut at its tip to stop the spring from escaping. The nut will also remain safely in place when the wing nut is loosened to remove the diagonal mirror housing.

I have cut an M6 thread in the central hole in a scrap alloy pulley backed up with a locknut. This is just to ensure the pulley remains firmly fixed on the screwed rod and cannot tilt. The pulley is marginally larger than the mirror holder. Meaning that a clean diffraction disk is seen in the light path at the expense of a tiny increase in actual diameter. The fact that it was once a pulley is of no concern. It just saved me sawing out and turning a disk on the lathe. IT will be painted flat back later along with the rest of the spider assembly.

Two dome-headed wood screws (fixed into the wooden plug) rest against the pulley face under spring pressure. These screws act as the hinge line for secondary mirror tilt. Their size doesn't matter. I just used some screws which matched my immediate needs.

A long M4 socket head bolt in another threaded hole near the edge of the pulley pushes against the oak plug. Also against spring pressure. This is the tilt adjustment for optical collimation.

One does not really want to use loose hand tools in the dark to adjust the telescope's collimation. So I shall fit a length of M4 rod with a small hand adjuster knob in place of the temporary screw shown here. This will all remain in the shadow of the secondary without contributing to diffraction effects.

I have now added some pictures of the secondary holder dismantled to show the actual construction.

It is all very simple and logical. The secondary mirror is now incredibly firm and stable and under the fine control of the tilt adjustment screw. Though only about 1/2" long (12mm) the compression spring is easily strong enough to avoid backlash during tilt adjustment. Provided the spider vane is reasonably aligned in the tube then the required mirror tilt should be minimal. In fact it should point straight down the tube but the tilt allows for any slight variations in spider alignment and mirror centration.

The traditional 3-screw adjustment of many secondary mirror spiders is quite unnecessary. In fact it usually causes great confusion because the secondary mirror tilts sideways as well as back and forth. The mirror actually tilts on 3 diagonals which have absolutely nothing to do with mirror alignment!

What is worse the mirror becomes floppy as one adjustment screw must be loosened to allow another to be tightened. So the hapless would-be collimator goes round and around and around adjusting screws in turn. Usually without succeeding in what should be quite a simple task.

Some spider designs incorporate rubber or spring loading for the screws. This means the screws don't become loose but it doesn't alter the fact that the diagonal tilts along irrelevant hinge lines. I borrowed the single tilt design from Mr Royce's website. Though I clung onto my traditional, tubular mirror holder rather than gluing the secondary to a 45 degree plate. I just don't trust glue when the OTA has to be moved around every time I want to observe. Then bumped back into storage afterwards.

Note that no attempt has been made to make an "impressive" spider and secondary holder. This is just an exploratory design, using scrap materials, to prove its ability to render a well-functioning telescope. Improving the finish and appearance are just time wasted at this point. The design may as much a failure as the brass U-spring design. Though this one does seem far more promising than the last. 

Here is a ink to Mr Royce's website page on his tilting, secondary mirror, spider design:





Click on any image for an enlargement.
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26.8.13

10" f/8 Curved vane spider: Failed.

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Here's a quick mock-up of my new idea for a single plane, tilting collimation, secondary holder. Thanks to Mr R.F.Royce for the tilting secondary inspiration. I didn't follow his idea of a titled mirror plate. Worrying about losing a secondary mirror on the way from the telescope storage would only put me off observing. So I'm playing safe for the moment and using a tubular mirror holder on a wooden plug, or base.


The folded U-shaped brass strip behind the oak plug is springy. A short length of garden hose is trapped between the heads of the fixing screws between the insides of the brass U-spring. This piece of hose is flexible enough to provide extra stiffness during the slight adjustment needed to align the secondary. It also kills vibration . I will try to find something more rubbery if needed. A couple of cupped rubber furniture feet might do. These could be captured by the heads of the fixing screws.

The cable clip is just something I found amongst my boxes of junk. I shall buy two new clips of roughly the same size for the finished item. This will increase the clamping force and avoid twisting on the curved spider.

The stiff, white, plastic, plumbing pipe (Pex) just happened to fit the cable clip perfectly. I stuffed a couple of offcuts of plastic Rawlplugs inside the white hose to centre the long bolt.  Tightening the wing nut expanded these plugs to form a nice tight, concentric fit on the bolt. The entire assembly can be rotated around the plastic hose in the cable clip. The Pex pipe's diameter has consequences for stability and the amount of friction it provides to avoid unwanted or accidental turning during transport.

A long wood screw, with countersunk socket head, tilts the secondary mirror cell against the springiness of the brass U-spring and hose off-cut. This screw is only temporary. On the finished item I shall probably use a long hex, socket-head screw and captive (T) nut.

The curved spider (bent stainless steel rule)  has only tiny fixing screws holding it to the cage pot at the moment. These will be doubled in size with Ny-loc nuts to ensure long term stability once clamped up tight. I deliberately used the smallest screws I had to avoid making large holes in the aluminium pot/cage which might be in the wrong position if I changed the design in a later iteration. Centring of the secondary can be adjusted by using blocks under the spider feet.

Note how the clip fixing screws have been arranged to fall within the optical shadow of the tubular secondary cell. Anything exposed within the light path will produce diffraction effects. Which must be avoided as much as possible for highest contrast on the moon and planets.

As can be seen in the tubular brass, secondary mirror holder. I have deliberately countersunk the screw holes in the oak former. As they are tightened down, the screws pull their heads into the hollows under the thin brass. The screw heads end up being flush or just below the surface of the brass for diffraction purposes. Any cosmetic "untidiness" will vanish after a couple of coats of flat black paint.

The inside of the aluminium secondary cage (or pot) will be lined with thin, black foam usually intended for collage. The spider and cell will be painted matt black. The secondary mirror support is already vibration free and will be better still with bigger fixing screws. Now I am closer to fitting the  mirrors to see how my creativity has worked out in practice.

Update: I found some 10mm cable clips and some 16mm in the shops but nothing in the middle. So I bought some 10mm clips and will try to find or make a smaller, central boss. I have stumps of brass rod in different sizes but no alloy. Though I may be able to find some alloy tube. I did, but it raised another problem. Or rather the reverse. It moved the secondary mirror off-centre because the cable clips were of much lower profile than the first one. Packing increased the height, returning the mirror support to the centre of the cage.

It would be relatively easy to make another curved spider vane. The low cost of stainless steel rules in discount DIY stores makes experimentation relatively inexpensive. The rules I bought are very free cutting. Allowing easy drilling and filing. The only possible disadvantage is the width of these rules. The slightest twist or sag in the spider means that the apparent thickness increases dramatically. Much is made of narrower vanes but these are also prone to flexure in use. I have some steel pallet strapping which would be ideal in tension used in a "normal" spider. It is hardened and not easy to drill but its very thinness means I would need more vanes for sufficient stiffness in use. Or would have to put them in tension.

A curved spider vane is self supporting. How well it is clamped and whether the bent 'feet' of the vane are properly supported seems to be vital to success. I have changed the tiny fixing screws for some 5mm stainless steel ones and this helped the curve maintain its rigidity. Sandwiching the vane feet with flat alloy plates helped the thinner vane but not enough. Secondary vibration lasted for several long seconds. Hence the change to the thicker steel rule. This is amazingly rigid but is thicker. How much more diffraction it causes I will only discover when I observe with the instrument.

I have removed the single central cable clip and fitted two more nearer the edges of the vane using much larger screws. Aligning the secondary mirror is a bit hit and miss. I keep peering through the blades of the primary mirror cooling fan and not liking what I see. Adjustment by rotation and tilting is proving coarse and unpredictable. I have made a couple of 1" square x 6mm Tufnol spacers to go under the vane feet. This stiffened things up rather nicely. The vane is now rock solid and needs very firm hand pressure to move at all.


I fitted a very long 1.25" focusing tube in an adaptor ring in the 2" focuser. This was to ensure my eye was on-axis with the secondary mirror as I tried to centre the reflection of the primary mirror cell below the focuser. Right now I think the weakness of the design is the folded brass U-spring. It flexes sideways so that it does not return to exactly the same place every time. This will not do! I need to seriously rethink this aspect of the design. I bought two different brass hinges to tilt the secondary but both were complete overkill. Perhaps I should return to a normal push-pull design?

Click on any image for an enlargement.
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16.8.13

6" Fullerscopes on eBay

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6 " Fullerscope Reflecting Telescope and Equatorial Pedestal Stand | eBay


The telescope was purchased in the early 1980's and is in good condition. The mirrors were re-silvered in 2006. The equatorial pedestal stand has manual slow motions to each axis and setting circles. It comes with  6mm, 12mm, 25mm eyepiece lenses, a 31.7mm 2x BL and a 11/4" diagonal prism.


It is a shame that there were no bids on this instrument.
It stability and likely image quality would eclipse many modern instruments. That said, Oban is not the most accessible place on the map from which to collect it.

PS: It seems somebody did buy this instrument. See the comments below. I hope Stuart thoroughly enjoys his views of the Moon and planets.

I can still clearly remember the shock and amazement of seeing a razor sharp view of the moon through a 6" Newtonian belonging to a school friend. That moment completely eclipsed any of the professional photographs in the library books I read over and over again.

Here are a couple of pages from the 1970s Fullerscopes catalogue showing the 6" Newtonian options:



Please try to ignore the flares.

Click on any image for an enlargement.

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